Opening comments by C. H. Fisher:

This debate was not conducted by the debate format I laid out in my challenge to the "Christian" music industry. It came about because of a series of correspondence I had with Dale Thompson of the CR group, Bride. That series began when I read a "sermon" by Mr. Thompson he posted on the web defending CR music. The "sermon" also addressed people, such as myself, who stand in opposition to CR and other aberrant forms of "Christian" music.

My initial e-mail to Mr. Thompson was not well received. Subsequently, he and members of his group refused to enter a rational and ethical debate with me. At several points, the exchange became heated. One of those heated exchanges was sent to Tempest of the Christian Metal band, Days of Wrath. Tempest and I agree that posting those letters would not be conducive to the debate. We both want people to focus on the points we are trying to make and not on the side issues.

As you can see, Tempest and myself also were a bit testy with each other at first. I believe we were both a bit intense over the exchange between Mr. Thompson and myself. However, I came to respect Tempest as an honest and sincere Christian. I believe he is wrong about "Christian" Rock music and pray that he will one day see the truth. He believes I am wrong and is praying the same thing for me. We probably did not get much accomplished except to establish the fact that two Christians can disagree passionately on a volatile and controversial issue and still develop mutual love and respect for each other.

Tempest says he has been persecuted a lot because he believes in CR music. Mr. Thompson made the same statement. I can testify that I have has some very bad experiences speaking out publicly my concerns about CR music. I have been verbally attacked among other things. Both sides have been guilty of not being willing to hear what the other side had to say without responding aggressively and hatefully. I have continued to correspond with Tempest although we haven't discussed this issue any further. I will be writing a conclusion to the debate that is also posted on his web site. Here is the link. http://dragonminstrel.tripod.com/index.html

I will be inviting Tempest to write a conclusion that I will be posting at the end of this page in the near future. Though we may never agree on the issue, I will continue to discuss it with anyone that will listen and pray that God will help them see what I believe He has revealed to me.

 #1. Tempest: DOW

Dear Mr. Fisher,

I hope I am not out place by writing this e-mail, but I read the letter that you wrote Mr. Thompson of Bride. I have taken it upon myself, to defend my brother in Christ who is guilty of nothing, except for sharing the love of God and leading the lost to Christ.

First of all, I believe that the reason people are turned off by Christians, is because of people like you, who insist that we fight amongst ourselves, instead of being examples of Christ. They see our hate and not our so-called "Love".

Second of all, the Bible says; "For not even the Father judges, for He has left all judgement unto the Son."

I may be going off the subject at hand, but I would like to share something with you about the ministry of Dale Thompson and Bride. When I was 15 years old, I went through a major time of depression and had decided to take my own life. I honestly felt I was at the end of my rope until God, used Bride to minister to me through their music and their walk with God. The lyrics of one of their songs taught me that life is full of trials and that we all need a little "rain" in our lives. The song turned me on to the Christian life that I had strayed from. If it weren't for good Christian-METAL bands like Bride, people like myself and others who lived the "rock n roll" life, wouldn't know the glory of God. You see, the person I was at that time, would have outright assaulted some preacher in a 3 piece suit that told me I was going to Hell, for listening to heavy metal, having long hair, and tattoos. Bride showed me that God loved me, UNCONDITIONALLY. Churches (in general), don't do what the Bible says when it speaks of going into ALL the world, and preaching the gospel. They seem to stay away from the wild youthful types, who have problems with alcohol, drugs, and other vices. BRIDE and other Christian-METAL (oops, there's that word again) bands, go into those places, and share the love of Christ because Christians in general refuse to go there. To make a long story short, Dale Thompson's ministry helped get me on the path that I am on now.

Obviously, I'm still alive.

As a matter of fact, I have to deal with people like you all the time now. Because I'm in the same position that Mr. Thompson is. I'm a minister in a Christian-DEATH METAL (oops, there's another interesting new word for you)-band. I have to deal with judgmental "Christians" like you, who continually bash my faith. I'm only doing what God has willed for me. Personally, I would love to stand behind a pulpit every Sunday morning and teach and preach, the message to a congregation. But, I have to do what I'm called to do.

As for you referring to Mr. Thompson as a minister of Satan, PLEASE REPENT NOW!!!!!!! (True, God forgives you, but you need to ask for that forgiveness). But, I've learned from past experience, how to deal with people like you...... I will simply PRAY.

If you would like to accept, Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, please respond to this e-mail, and I would be more than happy to share the Word of God with you. Or you can visit our band's web-page, to learn more about Salvation. Here's the URL: (URL deleted by web master) (That was our web-page at the time of this correspondence. I believe it is still up if you would like to check it out.)

His Servant,

Tempest

#2. Response from C. H.:

Dear Tempest DOW,

First of all, I don't wear a 3-piece suit and frequently preach in jeans and a T-shirt. Our church chucked religion out the door a long time ago to follow the Word of God. We are not legalists, King-James-only freaks, or any of the pictures whirling around in your mind. I know you do not listen to the Holy Spirit or you would know more about me since He knows me very well.

I also go into the highways and byways to win the lost. I started my ministry in prison and the streets and even bars and nightclubs, which sometimes freaks out orthodox Christians. You can't wash me off by painting a picture based on a total lack of knowledge. Have you been to my web site? I took the time to read everything I could find concerning Mr. Thompson before I wrote one word. Did you do the same with me?

Finally, the argument you use for Mr. Thompson is exactly the same argument I heard several weeks ago. Two families left our church because I challenged and exposed another "minister" much in the same manner I challenged Mr. Thompson. They said, "you don't know him like we do." They went on to declare what a wonderful man of God he is and how powerfully God works in his life. This minister also "saved" the alcoholic Dad of one family over 18 years ago. The man went from being a stone cold drunk to "believing" in God.

So what was my beef with the minister? He is a bi-sexual who will fornicate with man or woman, a drunkard and had to suspend his ministry to do 5 years prison time for arson, among other things. He is taking our area by storm with magic tricks and lying signs and wonders.

I do not believe Mr. Thompson is a bad man. I believe he is a good man who sincerely wants to serve the Lord. I believe God is convicting him about his music but he is too proud to repent and change. His responses to me are exactly the same as a guilty person responds. It is extremely difficult to admit you are wrong when you are a leader and most never do. He set the tone for this debate with his "sermon" declaring secular Rock music was sent by God because the devil can't create, which is a false premise since what is in question is not creation, but design. His "sermon" also mocked men of God and lashed out at everyone who asks him to explain his ministry and motives. His whole organization follows the same immature pattern, including yourself.

You sound like the political liberals who dodge every question and accuse everyone who disagree with them of hatred . I ask CR proponents to enter an ethical, honest, debate with me but they chose to lash out instead. They had a prime opportunity to prove their points in a rational way but chose to fight instead. This is immature and makes one appear suspiciously unconfident of their position. Now it appears Mr. Thompson wants to judge me by his false doctrine of "soul sleep" effectively changing the subject. Though I sent him biblical definitions that should have helped him understand that he poses his question about "soul sleep" with another false premise; he seems incapable of understanding.

Back to those families who left our fellowship to follow the false minister. What happened to the Dad 18 years ago was a false conversion. It wasn't conversion to Christ, but conversion to Mr. Jenkins, the minister who practices wickedness. The Dad never got rooted and grounded in the Church, but went around trying to emulate this false minister who "saved" him. Finally, he surrendered to Valium addiction and lays on the couch watching TBN, smoking tobacco, and drinking coffee all day long. The only time he stirs is when the false minister comes to town. Then he is "excited for the Lord."

Apparently, there are a number of programs in the world that one can believe in that will "deliver" people from their various bondage's and Satan does not oppose them. As long as they do not get connected to Christ, Satan does not care who they give the glory to. Whether or not you are healed, delivered, changed, or whatever, does not matter. Buddhists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and many others can make the same claims. The truth is you were "saved" by and to a demonic music fashioned in the pits of darkness even if you did actually come to believe in Jesus Christ. There is more to it than belief, you know.

Satan will give up a person he has captured with suicide spirits, or drug addiction, or whatever, if they will do his greater ministry of deceiving a generation that is rapidly producing one of the greatest apostasies in modern history. The Pharisee's also "saved" people, but Jesus told them their converts were two-fold more the children of hell. Can you imagine going from idol worship and sexual perversion to a strict religious life style and being called two fold more the child of hell?

I don't advocate going about trying to preach hellfire to lost souls. When I was in the world system I would either hit, cut, or shoot anyone who tried that approach with me. I also had long hair and a beard which is nothing to God anyway. I hated Christians because of the hypocrisy I had seen all my young life. I can remember going to see "The Exorcist" and Christians were picketing the theater. I wanted to beat them all to a pulp and I cursed them. Therefore, I love sinners and make sure they know where the love is coming from and it is Jesus Christ. Just as Jesus did, I only get harsh with hypocrites or those who are in error and refuse to quit influencing others to be in the same error. I refuse to use "Christianized" versions of illicit sex, drugs, violence, pornography, perverted music, New Age doctrines, pop psychology, false religious doctrines such as the "holy hell insurance" of once saved, always saved, or any other unbiblical thing to reach the lost. If pure Jesus is not powerful enough to reach them we're all stupidly following a myth. To me, "Christian" Rock or Metal music is the same thing as "Christian" prostitution or "Christian" homosexuality. Adding Christian to it does not make it right, neither can it be defended by lining up a billion converts that have been "saved" by it. It does not, nor can it be made to, fit the Divine Continuum of God's nature or His Holy Word. I sometimes debate pagans on secular bulletin boards and talk to a variety of people who were delivered from a life such as yours and mine, but follow paganism. My testimony doesn't faze them. I have to defend my position with the truth, not experiences. For that reason I studied Christian apologetics.

You seem use experiences to validate your position so I will give you one. My flesh wants to listen to your style of music and other religious music whose styles were borrowed from the world. As a musician I have to fight with the flesh when I hear it. The Holy Spirit rises up in my warning me exactly as He does in other dangerous situations. Let me explain. I was in a pawnshop a few years ago looking for a router. I'm a carpenter which supplements my income as pastor and try to buy good tools as cheap as I can.
As I was inspecting a router, the Holy Spirit told me to leave the pawnshop. All I know is that He said, " the spirit of death is in here." I immediately put the router down and spun on my heels to leave and came face to face with three young men. I stared straight ahead and walked out brushing past them although they were obviously wanting to challenge me. I read in the newspaper the next that they shot the pawn shop owner in the head killing him instantly. The same Holy Spirit warns me when I listen to your kind of "music ministry." Since I have natural urges to listen to it, I would obviously be more than willing to accept it if I thought it were a valid tool of God.
I'm saved, saved. Called out of the professional music darkness into His marvelous light! Called out of a quart of Scotch whisky each night, half a case of beer each day, handfuls of all manner of speed, cocaine, heroine, hallucinatory drugs, a violent criminal nature, to serve Jesus with all my heart, mind, soul and strength. Since the very first day in the established church I have been opposed by blind hypocrites who want me to accept the "Christianized" version of what I was delivered from. I see it clearly and know that little "christianettes" blindly follow the herd without questioning the direction. Until the day I go to stand before God I will oppose all forms of evil that is infiltrating the professing church.

I feel very sorry for you and the circle of deception you wander in. You cannot possibly see the light when you attack with such venomous scorn anyone who tries to tell you the truth.

(2 Th 2:9-12 NKJV) "The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, {10} and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. {11} And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, {12} that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

That's the day we are living in. You and I were warned! I'm listening...are you?

Respectfully,

C. H. Fisher

#3. Tempest: DOW

Dear Mr. Fisher,

Tempest: First of all, I would like to thank you for responding to my email. In this email I'm going to keep some of your quotes for my responses, so that I don't misquote you in anyway.

C. H. >Our church chucked religion out the door a long time ago to follow the Word of God. We are not legalists, King-James-only freaks, or any of the pictures whirling around in your mind.

Tempest: I would like to congratulate you and your church for making this step. All churches should be brave enough to get in the Word and out of religion. But as for the King-James version, that's all I read because
a lot of the newer versions were written by homosexuals, atheists, and other lost souls.

C. H. >I know you do not listen to the Holy Spirit or you would know more about me since He knows me
very well.

Tempest: Sorry to disappoint but I am guided by the Holy Spirit through all things unless I allow the flesh to guide me which I no longer do. (And don't think I'm trying to say I'm perfect, I do sin.)

C. H. >I also go into the highways and byways to win the lost. I started my ministry in prison and the streets and even bars and nightclubs, which sometimes freaks out orthodox Christians.

Tempest: I'm extremely glad to hear that. I've done prison ministry as well.

C. H. > Have you been to my web site? I took the time to read everything I could find concerning Mr. Thompson before I wrote one word.

Tempest: No, I have not. Please take the time to write back and give me the URL address and I will make sure I visit it. Have you visited ours?

C. H. >Do you do the same with me?

Tempest: No, I didn't. For that, I ask you for your forgiveness.

C. H. >I do not believe Mr. Thompson is a bad man. I believe he is a good man who sincerely wants to serve the Lord.

Tempest: Correction, he WANTS and DOES.

C. H. >I believe God is convicting him about his music but he is too proud to repent and change.

Tempest: Please explain to me why you believe this.

C. H. >He set the tone for this debate with his "sermon" declaring secular Rock music was sent by God because the devil can't create, which is a false premise since what is in question is not creating but designing.

Tempest: I have an example for you.... Say you have a gun. You can use it for bad or good. You can go out into the woods and shoot game to feed your starving family, or you can kick down your neighbors door, and murder him in front of his wife and kids.

I know in the depths of my soul that God created rock n roll, and I'll tell you why I hold this to be true...
Example #1
Joshua 6:16 (KJV)
"And it came to pass at the seventh time, when the priests blew with the trumpets, Joshua said unto the people, Shout; for the Lord hath given you the city"
This is an example of THE Rock, using rock. I seriously doubt there was a quiet little piano concerto going on outside those walls!
Example #2
Psalms 150:3-5 (KJV)
Praise him with the sound of the trumpet; praise him with the psaltery and harp. Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. Praise him upon the loud cymbals:
praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
This is what the Bible tells us to do. So why are you condemning his children for doing this? It makes no sense to me that certain so-called "Christians" attack me for doing what I am instructed to do in His own,
Holy Word. When was the last time you danced before the Lord like David did? We're talking about David the musician, Kind David, a man after God's own heart who desired to be in His likeness. (I suppose you'll probably retaliate with an example of David's adultery, but that's to be
expected.)
You know, if we fail to praise Him, the rocks and trees will cry out in our place? I'm sorry, but I don't want some rock or tree to do my job. Call it pride, call it insecurity, but that's how I feel.

C. H. > His "sermon" also mocked men of>God and lashed out at everyone who asks him to explain his ministry and motives. His whole organization follows the same immature pattern, including yourself.

Tempest: If I came across as though I was lashing out, I apologize. I understand that it's easy to misinterpret things through email. You can be more expressive through personal face to face conversations. Also, it's an
honor for you to narrow-mindedly put me in the same category as God sent men such as Mr. Thompson.

C. H. >You sound like the political liberals who accuse everyone who disagrees with them of hatred and dodges every question.

Tempest: I didn't accuse you of hating, I pointed out your judgmental spirit. Also, I will answer any question you ask me. You don't have to worry about me dodging questions.

C. H. >I ask them to enter an ethical, honest, debate with me but they chose to lash out instead. They had a prime opportunity to prove their points in a rational way but chose to fight instead. This is immature and makes one appear suspiciously unconfident of their position.

Tempest: If I've been irrational in anyway, please let me know how and I will ask both you and God for forgiveness. I probably was because I deal with this persecution everyday and it's starting to get to me. (Yes, I admit
when I'm wrong.)

C. H. >Now it appears Mr. Thompson wants to judge me by his false doctrine of "soul sleep" effectively changing the subject. Though I sent him biblical definitions that should have helped him understand he
poses his question about "soul sleep" with another false premise; he seems
incapable of understanding.

Tempest: I didn't hear the conversation so I don't totally understand what you're saying.

C. H >Apparently, there are a number of programs in the world that one can believe in that will "deliver" people from their various bondage's and Satan does not oppose them. As long as they do not get connected to Christ Satan does not care who they give the glory to.

Tempest: Very true. I would never point someone to AA (alcoholics anonymous) or NA (narcotics anonymous). I point them to the Word. And as a matter of fact, 2 of my band's fans have left those addictions behind because they heard one of our songs relating to that. Imagine that, the rock and roll that you despise, helping to turn someone away from the world and to the throne of God.

C. H. >The truth is you were "saved" by and to a demonic music fashioned in the pits of darkness

Tempest: I don't know about you, but I was saved by the grace of God. It just so happens that God used music to get my attention. It worked. God uses many methods. God allowed a friend of mine to lose everything he had, so that my friend would get his focus off the world on and on the Word.

C. H. >even if you did actually come to believe in Jesus Christ. There is more to it than belief, you know.
James 2:19 (KJV)"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

Tempest: I truly hope that you understand what you just said, for there is a lot more than just faith and belief. But faith is still important. Where are you without it?

C. H. >Satan will give up a person he has captured with suicide spirits, or drug addiction, or whatever, if they will do his greater ministry of deceiving a generation that is rapidly producing one of the greatest apostasies in modern history.

Tempest: Once again you've made a valid point and I don't disagree.

C. H. >The Pharisee's also "saved" people, but Jesus told them their converts were two-fold more the children of hell. Can you imagine going from idol worship and sexual perversion to a strict religious
life style and being called two fold more the child of hell?

Tempest: Yes, and I pray that you aren't falling into that category.

C. H. >I don't advocate going about trying to preach hellfire to lost souls. When I was in the world system I would either hit, cut, or shoot anyone who tried that approach with me.

Tempest: I have.

C. H. >I love sinners and make sure they know where the love is coming from and it is Jesus Christ.

Tempest: How can you show them love when you persecute those who follow the Lord with their whole heart?

C. H. > Just as Jesus did, I only get harsh with hypocrites or those who are in error and refuse to quit influencing others to be in the same error.

Tempest: Then be an example yourself.

C. H. > To me, "Christian" Rock or Metal music is the same thing as "Christian" prostitution or "Christian" homosexuality. Adding Christian to it does not make it right, neither can it be defended by lining up a
billion converts that have been "saved" by it.

Tempest: There is no such thing as a "Christian" prostitute, or a "Christian" homosexual. The point that I have been trying to make is that rock n roll is a TOOL. It's something you can use. It's what my Heavenly
Father has commanded me to use. When you go to the gas station, you can put 87 octane, 89 octane, or 93
octane in your vehicle. God has told me what "fuel" to use for his ministry, and I am doing it....no questions asked. I simply put my faith in Him. (I told you faith was important.)

C. H. > I have to defend my position with the truth, not experiences. For that reason I studied Christian apologetics. You seem use experiences to validate your position so I will give you
one. My flesh wants to listen to your style of music and other religious music whose styles were borrowed from the world. As a musician I have to fight with the flesh when I hear it.

Tempest: I use experiences because that's what the world sometimes wants. They have a believe it when I see it attitude so create an illustration. God gave me those experiences to prepare me for things like that.

C. H. >The Holy Spirit rises up in my warning me exactly as He does in other dangerous situations.

Tempest: So you're saying that you live by the convictions that God lays on your heart? Guess what??? That's exactly what I'm doing it and you're practically calling me a servant of Satan!

C. H. >Let me explain. I was in a pawnshop a few years ago looking for a router. I'm a carpenter, which supplements my income as pastor, and try to buy good tools as cheap as I can. As I was inspecting a router, the Holy Spirit told me to leave the pawnshop. All I know is that He said, " the spirit of death is in here." I immediately put the router down and spun on my heels to leave and came face to face with three young men. I stared straight ahead and walked out brushing past them although they were obviously wanting to challenge me. I read in the newspaper the next that they shot the pawn shop owner in the
>head killing him instantly. The same Holy Spirit warns me when I listen to your kind of "music ministry."

Tempest: I'm not asking you to listen to our music if it goes against your convictions. In fact, I don't care if you ever pick up one of our albums. But don't tell other people it's wrong just because you say so. I don't care if you tell them that you feel you shouldn't listen to it, as long as you don't lay an unjust judgement on us.

C. H. >Since I have natural urges to listen to it, I would obviously be more than willing to accept it if I thought it were a valid tool of God.

Tempest: I encourage you to pray about it then. But if God doesn't want you to listen to it, then don't.

C. H. >I'm saved, saved. Called out of the professional music darkness into His marvelous light! Called out of a quart of Scotch whisky each night, half a case of beer each day, handfuls of all manner of speed, cocaine,
heroine, hallucinatory drugs, a violent criminal nature, to serve Jesus with all my heart, mind, soul and strength.

Tempest: Praise the Lord for your deliverance!

C. H. > Until the day I go to stand before God I will oppose all forms of evil that is infiltrating the professing church.

Tempest: As I will too.

C. H. >I feel very sorry for you and the circle of deception you wander in. You cannot possibly see the light when you attack with such venomous scorn anyone who tries to tell you the truth.

Tempest: I don't really care for your so-called pity or that you think I've been deceived. This may be a selfish statement, but at this point in my life, I want to approach the throne of God and hear, "Well done my good
and faithful servant." That's what I do what he tells me to do. And I always go the extra mile when the opportunity arises. I do it, not because I feel I'm in a competition with other Christians, I do it, because I LOVE God with my WHOLE heart!!!

C. H. >(2 Th 2:9-12 NKJV) "The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, {10} and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. {11} And for
this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, {12} that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
That's the day we are living in. You and I were warned! I'm listening...are you?

Tempest: Yes, I've been listening very closely as a matter of fact. Oh, by the way, sorry about any spelling errors. I may be a perfectionist but I'm not perfect.

With the love of Christ,
Tempest

#4. Response: C. H.

Dear Tempest DOW,

I believe you have shown a better attitude than many of the others I have contacted. In fact, your attitude was commendable. You made your points and I understand when they sound harsh. Sometimes that's the only way to make a point. Maybe we can have the discourse that the rest refuse to consent to in our following e-mails. I don't expect you to disagree with me as long as either of us does not become disagreeable. If you are right and I am wrong, you will never convince me unless we can have an ethical, honest, debate.

You should visit my site and read the reasons why I believe the way I do about "Christian" Rock and other forms of "Christian" music that have been borrowed from the world. Although I spend more time on "Christian" Rock music, I believe "Christian" music of all styles has been perverted. If you think I'm too harsh, just think about a soul in hell. If one soul goes to hell believing Amy Grants licentious words, and I stand by doing nothing, what will God require of me?

(Ezek 33:6-8 NKJV) "'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand.' {7} "So you, son of man: I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore you shall hear a word from My mouth and warn them for Me. {8} "When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man, you shall surely die!' and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand."

 I am not an evil, hypocrite attacking you or anyone else. I attack what I believe is an evil invasion. I speak what I believe God is telling me against the openly licentious people in "Christian" music. Listen to Isaiah, and he was mild compared to some of the other prophets.

(Isa 5:22-24 NKJV) "Woe to men mighty at drinking wine, Woe to men valiant for mixing intoxicating drink, {23} Who justify the wicked for a bribe, And take away justice from the righteous man! {24} Therefore, as the fire devours the stubble, And the flame consumes the chaff, So their root will be as rottenness, And their blossom will ascend like dust; Because they have rejected the law of the LORD of hosts, And despised the word of the Holy One of Israel."

I've never heard your band and cannot make a qualified judgement concerning your music. I have listened to Vengeance, Mortification, One Bad Pig, 77's and others and the Holy Spirit rises up in me against this music. I also have observed the lifestyles of people such as Amy Grant and Michael Smith, to name a couple, and do not believe them to be representative of biblical Christianity. What is your opinion regarding these people? Also, what is your opinion regarding the "Christian" music business as a whole? Have your read Steve Camps 107 theses?

Respectfully,

C. H. Fisher

#5. File Attachment: C H.

Hello, Tempest DOW,

I want to answer some of your responses and questions you asked me. I haven't had time to visit your site but will do so some time today.

First, I believe God is convicting Mr. Thompson about his music because he's been trying to get out of it and because of the angry responses he gives toward my challenges. As one man said, If you can't take rebuke, you're probably guilty of it." That's not always the case. Sometimes people rebuke because they just don't like you or they have other ulterior motives. I tried to get into the "Christian" music business and have the talent (had, I'm getting old) to do it, but I couldn't get a witness of the Holy Spirit because of the apostate nature of the business. I reacted defensively when the Holy Spirit tried to reason with me. Finally, I gave in and then I saw clearly why I was not to get involved. Although I still sing, write and play music, but it is for the ears of God and for the purposes of His will. They are not for sale and I refuse to give them to the commercial machine of Nashville although I have done so in the past to my shame.

You gun example is not relevant in this context for the following reasons. It is presented on the premise that CR is of God. That must be proved before you can use that premise. You're or my opinions do not count. To date, no one has proved it is of God but chose to attack the challengers. Also, the gun example presumes that CR and Secular Rock is exactly the same as all other music, which is obviously incorrect. There are guns designed for sport, for target shooting, and for the sole purpose of taking a human life. Yes, they are all guns, but the design is different. Can a gun designed for sport be used to kill a human. This is true just as people will use the gospel to kill someone spiritually, but it wasn't designed for that purpose.

In any case, we cannot use the gun example because it isn't germane to the issue. A more perfect example would be "words." Some use words to encourage, love, build up, warn instruct, and other positive uses. There are words that are specifically designed for evil and cannot be used for good. Can you imagine a minister preaching a message laced with filthy language? Although evil words are words, they cannot be attributed to God and were not invented or created by Him. Neither can evil music. Evil words are a satanic arrangement of letters to form a perversion of language.

Then there is the example of good words designed in combination to for evil, such as a lie or false doctrine. They cannot be attributed to God either. Music arraigned in a style by Satan for the destruction of God's image in mankind is evil. It cannot be used for good. If one takes away the evil design, the music reverts back to its original neutral position. Then it can be arraigned to promote the image of God rather than to discourage it.

Now as to the example you gave of Joshua 6:16 I can only say that you should get some help from a friend who is better instructed in the scriptures before you use such examples to defend a point as vital as you listed. I hope that advice doesn't offend you. The activity in Joshua 6 was preparation for battle. The shouting was not music, neither the trumpet blowing, but battle sounds. You incorrectly assume that the trumpet was used melodiously in battle. This was not a Bourbon Street march with horns playing "When the Saints Go Marching In." It was loud, monotonous, blasts. The noise came after 6 days of total silence and toward the end of the seventh circle on the Sabbath day. Archeologists discovered the walls that fell were built on top of walls, which had fallen previously. The city was built on a mound to keep the pioneers (underground diggers) out. This also prevented the walls from falling in from an outside force. Houses were built on top of the walls making them top heavy. Thousands of people were on top watching the Israelites circle. These people were startled with fear as the sudden loud battle noises that caused them to simultaneously push outward on the top of the walls. I believe the combined force of the simultaneous outward pressure from the peoples reaction to the battle sounds caused the walls to fall.

Of course I do not disagree with Psalms 150 and do not attack anyone who obeys it. I have danced many times before the Lord, and run, and shouted. I do believe though that there is an abuse of this in the church. Again it is a stretch to take those scriptures and defend the use of CR. You are defending the practice of praise as if I disagree with praise. This is disingenuous and a completely different subject altogether. I do not know your music. Maybe it is praise music. You wrote that it was "Christian" metal music and that is certainly not what these scriptures are implying. Apparently you have been challenged before by some folks who have not been free their own selves from problems in doctrine and practice. I don't believe you should make those assumptions with me since it they will not stick. Although I do not believe I'm perfect, I do follow the word as literal as I can and as I said chucked religion out the door.

Of course the example about octane is not germane to the issue either. It would presume that CR was a spiritually more powerful music. Based on what, being loud? I have heard a quite song performed without any musical instrumentation that melted the coldest hearts. The power is not in the volume, but the anointing.

To come to a clear understanding of what you believe I want to ask you to write down in a clear, cognitive, format why you believe that CR is right complete with scriptural backing. Feel free to enlist the help of your friends and any resources. You can have all the time necessary to form your case.

Be polite, and I believe you will. Let's both avoid name-calling and insult hurling keeping a Christ-like spirit through out. I will answer you point by point in the same manner. When we are both satisfied we have done our best, if you will give me permission I will publish the total debate on my site and you can post the same on your site. This is what most CR proponents fail to respond to, an honest, ethical, debate on the issues. It's as if they realize they can't win it. I hope we can engage in such an effort. What this does is it takes the issue out of the arena of angry, resentful or defensive wrestling and focuses it on the points. Then people can make an honest, rational, decision concerning this issue. When its over, we can agree to depart in peace even though we may still disagree. If I am proved wrong, I will repent and change. I would expect you to do the same. I don't fear the truth no matter what it costs me. Do you?

In Christ,

C. H. Fisher

#6. Tempest: DOW

Dear Mr. Fisher,

Thank you for responding and sending me your URL address. I just visited the site not to long ago. Even though I didn't agree with 100% of it. I found it to be interesting and informative.

I do however agree with your views on some of today's "Christian" musicians. It truly angers me that you see Christian bands today, and have trouble distinguishing them from secular bands.

For example:
A couple of years ago, a friend of mine received backstage passes at a concert he was attending. The band had received many awards from the Christian music industry. But, when my friend made his way to the
backstage area, he found the members of that band drinking, swearing, and putting on a show of immorality. When I heard that, it really upset me, because that band had spoken out against abortion and they had reminded us of the coming of the Lord.

C.H. >I believe "Christian" music of all styles has been perverted.

Tempest: I strongly agree with that statement. I don't see that as being a result of the music itself, but the individuals who pursued self-glorification, rather than God's glory. It saddens me, that many Christian musicians today, are doing what they do, because now there happens to be a market for Christian music. (1 Timothy 6:10 "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after,
they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.) I feel that when something of God becomes "trendy" or "marketable", we must become wary. Christianity is not some kind of fashion statement. A lot of Christian musicians want to be heard on secular radio stations, not because they want to reach the lost, but because that's more money in their pocket. But believe it or not, there are still musicians out there that walk in faith. Here's a quote from Dale Thompson at a concert in Brazil: "Bride does not want to be a rock star band, we are just servants of Jesus Christ."

That is what a lot of today's artists don't have. They have stars in their eyes and lack servitude. I support any and all Christian artists (no matter what style of music they use even though I don't like all styles) that seek first the Kingdom of God, and that are willing to decrease, so that God may increase.

C. H. > If you think I'm too harsh, just think about a soul in hell. If one soul goes to hell believing Amy Grants licentious words, and I stand by doing nothing, what will God require of me?

Tempest: That's a very good point. As I said in my last email, I believe that you should live by the convictions that the Holy Spirit lays on your heart. In my honest opinion, I think Amy Grant needs to spend some time
on her knees praying for forgiveness for confusing both the Christians and the world. As for what God will require of you, I don't know. I know that the following quote is not found in the scriptures, but it
seems relevant to your statement. It goes, "How I can consider myself to be a good man, if I let evil survive." I don't remember where I heard that, but it has stuck with me since.

C. H. >I've never heard your band and cannot make a qualified judgement concerning your music. I have listened to Vengeance, Mortification, One Bad Pig, 77's and others and the Holy Spirit rises up in me against this music. I also have observed the lifestyles of people such as Amy Grant and Michael Smith, to name a couple, and do not believe them to be representative of biblical Christianity. What is your opinion
regarding these people?

Tempest: I've never heard One Bad Pig, or the 77's, but I am familiar with Vengeance Rising (or Vengeance) and Mortification. The story of Vengeance Rising is a very sad one. I don't know if you're familiar with the story but it mostly revolves around Roger Martinez, their lead vocalist. He spent his Vengeance days, preaching and teaching the word of God. He made a stand against immorality in a bold way. Then, one day he disappeared. Occasionally, one of his friends still involved in Christian music would receive a call from him asking for money. Now, he's making a return but he is no longer the same person he used to be. He claims he is an atheist. He is also making a series of tapes to go against the preaching tapes he made while he was with Vengeance. As for the rest of the band, they stuck together and formed a new band called Die Happy. They changed their music style and found a new lead singer. I really don't listen to Vengeance for the simple fact that I doubt Roger's sincerity even in those days. But I do occasionally listen to Die Happy.

As for Mortification, I strongly support their ministry. I spent some time with the band about two years ago and I was highly impressed by their fire for God and their sincerity. I don't know if you are aware
of the situation that Steve Rowe (bassist, and lead vocalist) just came out of, but Steve Rowe was literally dying. He was diagnosed with leukemia. The doctors told him that he had 2 months to live. Next he heard that he had 2 weeks to live. Then he was told that he had a few days. Then it came down to a few hours. Through the whole ordeal, he kept believing and praying that God would deliver him if it were his will. Then, when everyone believed that it was too late. He was miraculously healed. He went through treatments and medications but still gave God all of the glory.

C. H. > Also, what is your opinion regarding the "Christian" music business as a whole?

Tempest: In my personal opinion, the "Christian" music business is just what it claims to be...... a "business". It seems as though the only thing Christian about it, are some of the artists who are apart of that community. All it is, is an industry, not a ministry.

C. H. >Have your read Steve Camps 107 theses?

Tempest: No I haven't. I've never even heard of it as a matter of fact.

Oh, by the way. There was an Internet service error with the attachments you sent me, so when the network corrects the problem, I will be sure to take a look at them.

And on an ending note, here is why I believe that "rock" was created by God. And I have said before, I believe it is a tool, that can be used for good or evil.
Colossians 1:16 (KJV)
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"
And to be honest with you, that's pretty much the basis for my whole argument.


With the love of Christ,

Tempest

#7: Response: C. H.

Dear Tempest DOW,

I received your e-mail and was very saddened to hear about the lead singer of Vengeance Rising. That information really touched my heart.

Someone needs to reach this man. I will continue to pray for him with compassion. Do you believe the music was what got to him? If the music was of God, how could he be so immersed in it and still fall so fast and so far?

In regards to the scripture you quoted in Colossians 1:16, I must say you still haven't quite understood my point. God did create all things and I have never disagreed with that. He created music, of that I am sure, yet God is not the author of mutations, perversions and such. God is not responsible when someone takes his gift and fashions it into an instrument of destruction.

He is not responsible for the cocaine epidemic that came from His Coca plant or the opium, heroin, morphine addiction that is derived from His poppy plants. These drugs may have medicinal value but are destructive in the street form. I was a "hippie" in my hometown. We used to smoke pot and laugh at the "straights" who, even though they drank alcohol, declared it was of the devil. My reply was that God made the hemp plant, so the pot was okay to smoke. Was I right? I could use Col. 1:16 to prove my point back then but I wasn't a bible thumper.

Rock Music is a satanic perversion. I have a wealth of documented material that follows the history of the creation of Rock music from the beginning up through the 80's. I used to do a Rock Music expose' when I was an evangelist. I also have a two-volume video set by Joe Shimmel that documents the influence of totally satanic people in the lives of the most popular Rock stars.

To declare that He is responsible for the mutation of music into the form called Rock music is opening the door for a lot of bizarre doctrine. For example, God created sex and gave it to us to enjoy (I believe I can speak this to you without reservation), yet God is most certainly not responsible for prostitution, fornication, homosexuality and lesbianism, and child molestation. Homosexuals declare the God made them the way they are and that their actions are justified using the same scripture you use and more, Colossians 1:16. Of course they are wrong for they have perverted what God created as good.

One can never take a perversion and use it for God's glory because of this one reason. 1. When Satan perverts something, he voids the power of God in it by redesigning it to ensnare and destroy the souls of mankind.

If we are to use Rock music, we have to undo what Satan has done. It then becomes godly again. I don't believe the satanic perversion is undone by simply changing the words. The style is still unoriginal, not derived from godly sources. The entire perversion has to be undone. Below is an article I just posted on my site that will shed more light on what I am trying to say. If you do not have the time to go there I will send you a file attachment below.

I also want to thank you for helping me to see that I need to do more to express myself so that others do not believe that I hate them. I'm a happy guy, smile a lot and love being around all kinds of people. I wouldn't hurt anyone intentionally because I've been beat upon by religious folks quite a bit. I still get a lot of flack from the religious crowd.

Lets keep communicating. I believe that it is fruitful and we're coming closer to an understanding.

In Christ, C.H. Fisher

It is not my intention to post an opinion here as if it were a Divine Revelation from the Almighty God.  It is an opinion as is most of what I write.   All we have left when we are not directly quoting scriptures is opinions.   Some opinions are extremely accurate being based completely on God's Word with little, if any, human wisdom added.  I make observations and speak sincerely from those observations.   Sometimes I do not have all the facts although I make every effort to gather them before I speak or write.  Then I have to go back and correct my words, either making them stronger or retracting something I have spoken or written.   I pray I will always be humble enough to do so, yet I pray more that I will not make the mistakes in the first place.  Words are powerful and sometimes you get branded with a stigma by something you said in haste or in ignorance. 

There is much more to my ministry than writing diatribes against aberrant music.   I don't want to be known for being a music critic, yet someone has to stand for the truth and oppose mutations and perversions of what is uniquely God's gift of music to the Church.  As a result of this I have taken a position that opposes most of what is called "Christian" music across the entire spectrum of the "Christian" music industry.  

Although I strongly oppose most of what is called "Christian" music today; I cannot and will not denounce across the board all Christian musicians. I don't personally listen to some styles of Christian music because they do incite worship in me but titillate the flesh. In fact, I do believe all styles of CM have been perverted and I do not sense the anointing of the Holy Spirit in most of the music. This is not limited to music. I frequently see preachers on television prance across the stage; posing and acting out a preaching style while the articulate a sermon, yet there is no anointing. That's another problem altogether.

I also am not naive enough to believe people are going to listen to some styles or one style of music continually. Bluegrass Gospel will not turn on the worship in most people and neither will twangy, nasal, Country Gospel music. I certainly can't worship God with Death Metal music and liturgical, pipe organ, music depresses me.

What is the perfect style? I can't tell you the answer to that question. It's like the question that was posed to a wise, old, black preacher who knew God in the depths of his soul. He was asked, "Preacher, what is unction?" He answered, "I can't tell you what it is, but I can tell you what it ain't." In the same sense, I can't tell you what is the correct style but I can tell you what it ain't.

That sounds like a convenient cop out, so let me give you a well-deserved explanation of my answer. I believe the mantle of anointing was dropped by the last generation that had God's anointing on their music. It wasn't a sudden event so that you could point out the date and time. As that generation departed gradually into their eternal reward they gradually handed down the mantle. The next generation failed to pick it up, instead they fashioned a new mantle that was more exciting but unanointed. The result is the music became perverted from being fashioned by the influences of the flesh instead of the Holy Spirit. We can see the parallel of this in the mainstream churches; the way they conduct services, ministry, and fashion doctrine that avoids any commitment to God.

There is usually some sort of musical style change from generation to generation. This is to be expected and people shouldn't get too alarmed when this happens. Yet the style has changed dramatically over the last couple of generations. Even though there have been a few musicians that have written and performed anointed music during this time, I believe we have had at least two generations pass without the mantle being picked up. As a result, our present generation and the coming generation are working under a false mantle. This is the reason why I can't point to the style or styles of music that is appropriate for our generation, because it never developed. This is evidenced by the fact each subculture in the World System has a corresponding subculture in Christendom. Each of these corresponding subcultures has their own Christianized music version of the sub culture they emulate. There is no originality, no creativity, and no distinctiveness in the Christian versions. It is simply borrowed musical styles taken from World System patterns designed by Satan for his kingdom.

Christianizing those styles has brought the weapons Satan designed to deceive the masses into the heart of the church's future, namely its youth. Satan didn't have to storm the doors of the church. He was invited, clothed with sheep's clothing, and given the run of the house.

There are some sincere people who are genuinely saved but caught up in this scheme of the enemy of our souls. Why? Because they do not know any better. Many were raised in church under dead preaching and bad examples. The prophets have shut their mouths on the subject choosing rather to prophesy smooth things in the classic spirit of Balaam. There are too many hirelings in the pulpit, yes men to a deacon board, who will not speak out and have no knowledge or authority to do so.

Many anointed musicians are wasting their talents because they have not discovered the fallen mantle. They write songs from devoted hearts only to have secular and apostate producers and performers change the words. Even though occasional songs slip through that have meaning and anointing, most lie on the cutting room floor, so to speak, or never make it to the cutting room. For example, I have a friend who is an accomplished and legendary songwriter. He wrote a song pleading for the church to minister to the dejected, hurting, souls and convicting them for their coldness in not doing so. He said the song was turned down time and time again by both producers and performers. Most of them told him the song was too serious and needed to be changed. He refused to change it and finally found someone to record it. The result was it went to number one on the charts and was recognized with the highest award that the industry can give a song that year. Even the corrupt Dove Awards representatives recognize an anointed song even though they frequently honor the demonic and apostate musicians as well.

What's the answer? Of course the answer is to pick up the fallen mantle, but first they will have to find it. The result will be a new Christian music style or styles that do not resemble the satanic world system's music. It will be distinctly Christian, anointed and powerfully convicting. More than a reformation, it will be a revolution.

Some might say, the world would not listen to such music. I will reply that they don't watch Christian movies either or become interested in anything else the church does. We can't just invent things the world likes in order to get them interested. What are we going to do, invent "Christian" pornography to get pornographers interested in the church? I believe we have not given enough credit to God for His ability to prove the reliability of His own works. He doesn't need our carnal modifications of His programs and implements. Doing so only dilutes their effectiveness.

When God sends a man that man is uniquely Christian, separated and anointed. He sent His book and it is uniquely Christian, separated and anointed. His music used to be the same. Today it is hard to find a man of God, uniquely Christian, separated and anointed. It is even difficult to find His word being preached with the mingled message of the New Age and pop psychology. Today, the music has lost all its distinctiveness and has become blended and mingled with the world spirit.

I don't enjoy writing the rebukes of the "Christian" music industry and its participants and to not hate anyone. Yet strong rebukes are necessary when people harden their hearts and minds to God's Holy Spirit or are seeped in deception. God is speaking through me and others to denounce mutated music and at the same time is calling for courageous men and women who will search for and pick up the fallen mantle. The result will be a music that will join with the word to revive God's kingdom. This may be impossible without a purging of today's church, yet young people have challenged the deadness of their elders before and it can happen again.

May God forgive me if I overstep the boundaries of His love in my zeal for His holiness and purity to return to the church. I know my heart yet understand others may not realize where I am coming from. When they read these typed words that cannot possibly reflect the spirit and tenor of my soul, I pray that their eyes will look beyond what may possibly offend them to the truth in these fallible words I offer.

#9. Tempest: DOW

Dear Mr. Fisher,

I was finally able to view the attachments that you emailed to me. Also, for future reference, please only use one attachment per email (my email program and PC aren't the best to work with).

Before this debate goes any further, there is one thing I would like to address; I did not enter this debater to try to prove to you or anyone else that I am right. As a matter of fact, I'm not trying to convert you in anyway. You see, God called me to be a minister using this style of music. I believe the He is using you as a test for me to understand His will for. I followed Him wholeheartedly and did not ask "why", when He laid this before me. It seems that now, since I am doing His will, He wants me to have a greater understanding of it. I can only praise him for this trial of purging.

Honestly, I feel that at this point, this debate isn't making any major advances and I think I know why. We each have a view that is conflicting with the other. It seems to me, that you view "Christian metal/rock", as a mutation of music, by the hands of Satan. On the other hand, I view "Christian metal/rock", as a creation (not a mutation) of God.

Please point out scripture to me, that states that it is a mutation, and not a creation. I told you scripturally why I hold onto Christian rock as a creation of God. But you said that it was an invalid because homosexuals claim that to be there excuse. They use it for their own purposes. (The Bible is God's Word and is not in existence to support views made by the "human" mind of an individual or a group living in
sin. They use it out of context because the way they use it, is in direct violation of God's laws of morality.) People who use illegal substances, say that they are justified by Genesis 1:12. Men of the
world such as Hitler use scripture, but that does not change the meaning of God's Holy Word. I firmly stand behind my use of that scripture (for I take all scripture literally as well). I feel that it was unethical
of you to disclaim it on the grounds that a group founded in sin used it.

The next part of this letter does not have a scriptural basis:

Okay, lets both assume (well, on my part it would be an assumption), that "Christian rock" is a mutation of music, by the design of Satan. Keep that thought in your head as I lay out the following scenario. (Also
keep in mind that the Bible says, "No weapon formed against you shall prosper".);

I used to teach self-defense in my father's Karate studio. Say one of my students grabbed one of our training weapons off the wall. He fashions it to become a deadly weapon (we had weapons padded with foam on the outside). He then commences to attack me with it. He inflicts pain upon me with it. I then, take that weapon from him, and strike back...

Imagine Satan giving a deadly tool to the world to attack those who do not know Christ, and weaken those that do. Then God says to His followers, "I commission you to use this tool and go into battle, just
as the Devil has come against you with it!" (Please know that that was all hypothetical and I don't claim to know that God would say those words or take that course of action.)

You know, there are actually viruses that can be powerless on an individual, if that individual has a similar yet different (different meaning it's not deadly) virus injected into his system? Think about
the parallel of Satanic music vs. Christian music.
Also, in reference to what you said about Joshua 6 ("It was loud, monotonous, blasts."), that describes a lot of Christian metal. You know, I go to sleep listening to certain Christian metal bands because
their music is constant and steady. I can't sleep to Classical (even though people say how relaxing it is) music, because of all the variations and changes throughout the music. Plus, I would never try to
listen to classical music while trying to sleep because of how evil some of it is. There have been a few classical composers who were demon possessed and performed classical music because of how the music can open up an individual to demonic possession. (But born again Christians cannot be "possessed", only "oppressed"). I think some classical music is more deadly and Satanic, than the most evil rock album you could find. [That's my personal view, actually the Bible says that sin is sin (another words there is no degree such as slightly bad or very bad).]

One more thing, you have my permission to publish this debate any where you like as long as I have the same freedom. Also, you need not be concerned with altering anything you say in such a case. I just thought I should let you know that.

With the love of Christ,

Tempest

P.S. I must say one thing; I admire your uncompromising desire to serve
God. Though we may disagree in certain areas, I see your heart and
that's all that matters.

#10. Response: C. H.

Hello Tempest,

I'm sorry about crowding your computer with the two files. I'll remember in the future not to send any large files and only one file.

Let me address your concerns one by one. First, you are partly right about my view. I do believe Secular Rock is a mutation of music by Satan. Professing Christians attempt to "Christianize" and use that mutation declaring God created it. That God created music is true. That He mutated it is obviously not true. There is just too much evidence to the contrary. What I really believe is that Christian musicians can produce music that will win the lost without having to borrow the worlds mutations. They are very talented and have the benefit of the anointing. Satan's mutations are unfit for God's people and inferior as well. I believe they would come up with a new style arraigned by the Holy Spirit and very powerful.

I feel you missed my point about the homosexuals using that scripture in Col. 1:16. They are able to do so in the same manner you have used it because they claim God created sex and their mutation of sex therefore must be of God. That was my point. If we disagree with the homosexual about that use of the scripture we must by all integrity disagree with the use of it to justify the mutation of anything God has created, even music. I gave an illustration in one of my articles of a girl that used sex to get her boyfriend to the altar. Can we condone this use of a satanic method? I don't think so.

There are a number of scriptures I would use to prove Secular Rock music is a satanic mutation. Of course, Secular Rock music is not mentioned in the bible, so we have to understand Divine Order here. This means any evil mutation of what God creates is a standard for judging future evil mutations. Wouldn't you agree with this?

Let me begin by showing you Satan's mutation of the gospel.

If Satan mutates the gospel, then we could never use that mutation to do the work of God. To do so would bring a curse on us.

(Gal 1:8-9 NKJV) "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. {9} As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed."

We can also look at the mutation of prayer.

(Acts 19:13-15 KJV) "Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. {14} And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. {15} And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?"

The mutation of His methods.

(Lev 10:1-2 KJV) "And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. {2} And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD."

Actually, the bible is quite full of examples of people trying to do things Satan's way and suffering the consequences. One good man simply touched the Ark of God out of genuine concern, to stabilize it, and died.

(2 Sam 6:6-7 KJV) "And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. {7} And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God."

The example of the Karate weapon you gave illustrates my point exactly. Satan uses hate to set a human being on me (and this has happened more times than I can count). Can I use hate to fight back? Not so. I have to use what God gives me which is love and the power of prayer. For example, a deacon in my first pastorate kicked my wife in the back. At first I wanted to kill him, just beat him so bad that he would die. God dealt with me as I knelt on the floor in my office praying. He said, "If you use your weapons, it will be your battle. If you use my weapons, it will be my battle." Because of my violent background I have had to learn a lot of lessons in that category.

God gave us five pieces of armor, one communications system and one weapon. Why did He give us one weapon? Because it never fails. It has never failed and it will never fail. This weapon has been the time-honored means by which the church can reach the lost. God doesn't use the weapons of Satan because they are inferior to His own.

(1 Sam 17:38-40 KJV) "And Saul armed David with his armour, and he put an helmet of brass upon his head; also he armed him with a coat of mail. {39} And David girded his sword upon his armour, and he assayed to go; for he had not proved it. And David said unto Saul, I cannot go with these; for I have not proved them. And David put them off him. {40} And he took his staff in his hand, and chose him five smooth stones out of the brook, and put them in a shepherd's bag which he had, even in a scrip; and his sling was in his hand: and he drew near to the Philistine."

Basically, all throughout your response you have been proving some of my points. For example, the part about classical music being demonic being deadly because it was arraigned by demonic composers is a perfect example for myself to use to prove my own point.

My point about Joshua was that it was not music they were playing. You used the scripture as an illustration of Rock music in the bible, so I was simply trying to prove it wasn't music in the first place.

Maybe I will not change your mind, Tempest. Yet I believe we are making some great advances. First, the fact that we are even talking to each other and being civil is a great advancement. I am learning more about a group of people I didn't understand, "Christian" Rock musicians. That is a great advancement.

Finally, you've agreed with me on some things although your position has not changed so I feel it appropriate that I let you know I agree with you on some things also. I don't want to appear as if I'm trying to tear everything you say apart. I agree that God is using me and He is using you. He is using us both to deal with a highly controversial issue that is volatile and causes strong reactions in people of different opinions. If I were to debate anyone on this issue I would certainly want them to acquit themselves in the Christian nature you have portrayed. I pray I have portrayed the same qualities to you.

We will never solve anything in the church if we do not suppress our zeal and passion long enough to hear what our opponents have to say. I have learned that also.

In Christ,

C. H. Fisher